Pitchfork Disses Grampall Jookabox

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Comment by Lance Harrison Drake on December 17, 2008 at 1:17pm

Of course, the current crop of 20 somethings, hipsters or otherwise, have the Sweet Bird of Youth card to play. My hand is up for once being in my early-mid 20's and thinking I knew it all, blazing some new passage of cool, when in actuality, I knew jack compared to now and was strolling along an oft-trod before me, well-worn road of self-anointed coolness.

I wish someone reputable and honest from the 60's "counter culture" daze crowd would step up and call that era for what it really was: a wanton, free balling middle/ upper middle class screw fest with mind altering drugs and music thrown in the mix. If you were born in the early 1970's (myself, b.1970), when one came of proverbial age, sex and death were potentially fatally linked via AIDS. We were the first generation to navigate puberty only to be told we could possibly die if we got our rocks off, all while Madonna was wiggling her ass in a pile of cash at us on MTV. We were the first generation to endure a truly non-luxurious sexual-sociological-psychological-cultural reality while still being inundated in the aptly aforementioned, all-consuming luxury society. But I digress.

In terms of modern music, rehash comprises 80% of it imho. Unless some guy can pick up a guitar and have it make bacon and eggs for him while playing it, it's all been done before, specifically on that instrument. Distinctions and counter-voices in the soup of swill still happily emerge, however. Many of those voices arise as a result of the efforts of yes, some degree of hipsterdom in the indie music world- labels, artists, or otherwise. For me, the nothing new is coming from them view is sometimes trumped by the keep it coming quotient. Good music, like a good pair of well-worn jeans, still comes out in the wash.



In terms of music and a guitar, it's all series of rehash and retro in some regard.

Comment by benjamintraub on December 16, 2008 at 9:46pm

eric, you quote frank as saying, "They welcomed the youth-led cultural revolution not because they believed it would allow them to tap a gigantic youth market (although this was, of course, a factor), but because they perceived in it a comrade in their own struggles to revitalize American business and the consumer order generally.”

no shit. its the same thing, especially in a culture that is more likely to celebrate youth. the very same generation, baby-boomers, post WWII children, historically the first american generation to endure a true luxury society.... one in the same. woodstock isnt a revolutionary musical memory, its a brand name.

yes the adbusters piece hits hipsters hard, but it was duly needed to those offended. nothing new is coming from them. we live in a post-post-modernist world, a contemporary era that still packages things that are 20 years old as being new (skinny jeans, slotted glasses, fucking NEON?)...

its simply consumption of cool, not being cool, that is regarded as being cool now.

Comment by John P. Strohm on December 16, 2008 at 6:34pm

I'll check out that book, thanks for the tip, Eric. I don't 100% agree with the adbusters article - I just found it an interesting viewpoint (adbusters is militantly opposed to consumer culture). I can see why it would piss people off who are closer to the culture than I am. I'm an old guy, so it's difficult for me to have a very good perspective on this. I don't hang out with 20-something hipsters on a regular basis, so I really can't make any grand statements, dismissive or otherwise. It seems that much of hipster culture was well in place when I was in my 20s, and I recognize that a lot of the picking and choosing of cultural artifacts is really just in the spirit of fun.

As I mentioned, I've been consistently impressed by so-called Millennials that I've worked with (hipster and otherwise); I'm not some bitter old man dismissing The Kids Today out of hand. I've just observed some people from afar that would stereotypically be regarded as hipsters who just seem really...vapid. Which, come to think of it, is also consistent with what I experienced in hipster scenes in my 20s, and is also consistent with more self-consciously adult social scenes I've experienced. Which leads me to this stunning insight: idiots are everywhere! (okay, I'll think up some better insights for my next comment).

Comment by Eric Harvey on December 16, 2008 at 5:55pm

i just caught the tail end of the "hipster" conversation here. anyone ever read "conquest of cool" by thomas frank? it's a great book, and touches on the idea that jeb mentioned that hipsters are creating as much as consuming "cool."

i was repulsed by that adbusters piece, and at the risk of shameless self-promotion, here's a thing i wrote in response (which quotes Frank's book a lot):

http://www.marathonpacks.com/2008/08/remember-when-elaine-called-kramer.html

Comment by Jeb Banner on December 12, 2008 at 2:44pm

FYI, I reworked one of my responses into a blog for Small Box. Since this thread inspired it, here is a link
http://www.smallboxweb.com/blog/2008/12/here-come-millennials.html

Comment by Lance Harrison Drake on December 12, 2008 at 12:51pm

Now that Obama has taken shape, please consider this a brief comedy-tragedy side bar in my literal back yard...The Soon to be Ex Gov of Illinois lives three blocks from me and my wife. Yes, for those of you who do not know, he forsaketh the gratis mansion digs in Springfield back in 2002 to stay near the Witch's Tit, aka, the Chicago Corruption ATM, Inc. Helicopters are flying over the hood from 7 AM to 5 PM and have been since Tuesday morning (peak and normal news cycle hours I might add) and new trucks abound. It's something right out of the movie "Brazil" meets Oliver Stone's "Nixon." If you turn on your tv and see a guy getting carted away in a Nixon mask with a jam box blaring "All Tomorrow's Parties," that was me. Lloyd Dobler might need company.

You know what I also love about this convo. Right now, there's a 12 year old kid sitting in a basement playing music somewhere, perhaps Indy or Chicago, who will one day write his name in the snow because he gave a damn about wanting to play music, play it well, and left all that superfluous hipster shite to the curb.

Comment by Jeb Banner on December 12, 2008 at 12:43pm

Ben, I think one of the defining features of the next generation is that they are suspicious of anyone selling them something. They want to sell it to themselves so you need to give them the tools to own that product or service.
I can respect that.

Comment by John P. Strohm on December 12, 2008 at 12:39pm

I hope you're right! Many of the Millennials (artists and music biz types) that I deal with regularly are really amazing and fully engaged. By the same token, I know what I see when I go to SXSW and similar events, which is consistent with a lot of that article.

Comment by Jeb Banner on December 12, 2008 at 12:20pm

true, a hipster is something we call each other but not ourselves.
In reality though Millennials share many of the same attributes as a whole with the common definition of a Hipster.

But in looking over the article, I still disagree. I don't think the "Hipsters" of today are only consuming cool and not creating it. I see a very distinct culture from the "Obama Generation". I think history will bring this current crop of "Hipsters" into focus as it did with Punks and the Grunge kids and the Hippies, etc.

Comment by benjamintraub on December 12, 2008 at 12:15pm

john, thanks for having the balls to post that article... i was going to but the tone of the rest of my last post i didnt think it be nice, you know, since it mentions pitchfork.

and yes, the term 'hipster' has been around longer than most of us posting, but the meaning has changed recently. the internet is the culprit, containing all of the sharable information and free music and 'i know about this but you dont'ness that makes being cool for a kid either impossible or way too easy.

but jeb, there is a difference between wanting to live somewhere that IS cool and someone trying to SELL you their idea of cool. MFT for example. its cool. but is it marketed solely to younger people who may or may not know their own definition of cool? no. it serves some greater purpose first in the musical community for Artistic Musical reference and secondly the regional community with its collection of members and networking abilities.

so i guess im trying to say MFT is cool because im old and i know what cool is but Pitchfork is not cool because they tend to like newer things that i dont find as artistically relevant. i am not comparing the uses or reasons for the site though, just their coolness.

sorry, that wasnt a very good review...

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